Here’s a conversation I had with an acquaintance on Facebook earlier this month (a few days before Obama gave his speech to school children). I think you’ll find it quite amusing. (Or else you think the same way she does, in which case you’ll probably get so pissed at me you’ll want to spit. Heh heh heh.)

Her original post, which inspired me to comment against my better judgment:

President Obama sent an email out to all of the public schools Friday afternoon informing them that all PK-12 students were required to watch a live speech from him on Tuesday, September 8th right after Labor Day weekend. This speech, being aired liv…e on the 8th on CSPAN at 11am CST or noon EST, will be shown to all children at school. A worksheet was attached with suggestions for discussion with the kids b4.

This worksheet encourages them to read books about Obama, as well as discussing the importance of listening to whatever our government officials say, i.e. mayor, congress, senator and president. Talk about conditioning. Because so many parents and some schools were in uproar over it, Obama is airing a preview on Monday for parents to watch. I am not convinced the live speech won’t be different than what he shows us. The email informed schools that parents have a right to request their children don’t watch it, but with the little bit of notice on a holiday weekend, no parents know about it to protest. While it is supposed to be an educational challenge, I believe it is just one more way that Obama can brainwash and condition our children at an impressionable age. Besides, if he is simply encouraging kids to focus on education, why does he think he is important enough to have the influence over children that one’s own parents don’t. Lets face it. If they are not overachievers, some continued: inspirational speech from Obama isn’t going to change that. Don’t buy his lies!

Me:

Telling kids to work hard and stay in school is indoctrination? I suppose I’d take this more seriously if it weren’t mostly coming from the same crazies who yelled for everyone to support our President or it “emboldens the terrorists” and that dissent was un-American and unpatriotic when Bush was in office. They apply a different set of standards to Presidents depending on which party they belong to. That is incredibly hippocritical.

It’s one thing to disagree with his politics, but to accuse him of indoctrination before you hear what he has to say? Even if he DID go in there and say all that, which he WOULD NOT, is the right SO afraid of anyone challenging their beliefs that they’re going to start ignoring people preemptively? How narrow-minded. I would never want to raise children who can’t think for themselves. Beliefs left unchallenged are exceedingly dangerous and result in raising PARROTS, not children with the capacity for independent thought. THAT would scare me more than any unfounded, histrionic threat of indoctrination.

It amuses me that the ultra-religious don’t realize that they are themselves indoctrinating their children by refusing to let them even WATCH it.

PS- I wasn’t going to post anything because I typically don’t discuss religion or politics with anyone, because frankly I don’t really care, but … I figure if you’re going to post it in a public forum like Facebook, you must be okay with people discussing it. While I am quite direct, I’m not trying to attack you. Just tired of all the falsehoods and fear-mongering coming from the religious right.

Her:

Okay, everyone, I expected a few upset people over this. Let me try to address everything. I hope I don’t forget anything here. Firstly, let me say that I am not saying it is indoctrination. I am not even saying that for a fact he is going to brainwash our children. I didn NOT vote for Obama, and even though my votes during the last two elections were based on rights to life and various issues that the Bible teaches, I personally couldn’t stand Bush either. I simply had to vote the lesser of two evils. I certainly agree that too many parents don’t step up, which is extremely unfortunate, but who is Obama anyway to think that if he gets on the tube and tells kids to strive for their best that they are suddenly going to see a light from heaven and hear a choir of angels sing because they finally get motivated or get it. I don’t know anyone personally who was struggling at school that said, I am the success I am today because I heard a speech from a world leader that inspired me. Parents are supposed to be the number one supporters, motivators, and the number one people involved in their child’s life, which clearly is not happening in many cases today, but that doesn’t mean I want Obama stepping up to the plate.

A Russian newspaper journalist wrote a recent article in a Russian newspaper where he, living in a former communist society, stated that the United States is moving towards a socialist government at an alarming rate. He compared us to lost sheep who do whatever our leader says. In 6 months time, we have already handed over our auto and banking industries and as I mentioned earlier, media and healthcare to come next. While I certainly agree that healthcare needs reform, I don’t want the government taking that over. Just look at the government run programs that have run out of money or are failing. Under this president I see our grandchildren being left with an overwhelming amount of debt. I don’t claim that by getting a Republican president in office that this will miraculously get better. As a Christian, I see all of the things prophesized in the Bible beginning to come to fruition, so whether it was Obama or Bush in office, we are warned these things will come to pass.

As far as being narrow minded, God tells us there is no sitting on the fence, we either believe or we don’t. I had already told friends that I am setting up DVR to record his speech on CSPAN and screening the content before I allow my child to watch it. So while I have no problem screening it first and then having that discussion with my daughter in the privacy of my home, I am not comfortable giving even more of my rights over to the government to manage. Next, government will be telling me how to do everything else. We can’t talk about God in schools and teach our children about him. Parents are afraid to spank their kids or discipline them at all because of fears the children will cry abuse ( I am not referring to those who are abusive and should be dealt with). I have the right as a parent to stand up for my constitutional right to raise my family in the manner I see fit. If people keep just stepping aside and ignoring what is slowly happening, then we will soon find we are like the frog in the hot pot of water.The water starts of cold, and and heat is slowly rising so since the change is so gradual, we won’t notice the danger, until it is too late. If the government announced on t.v. tomorrow that they were taking over everything from media, to healthcare, to our finances, etc. there would be widespread civil war, looting, and rioting in the streets, but if they create crisis and take over everything gradually, we won’t know to jump out of the pot. While I would never think it bad to encourage children to strive for their best, I also remember this comes from the same president that supports the idea of work camps for our children. Wonder when he will begin enforcing that law? Not trying to attack anyone either, just standing firm in my beliefs.

At least when all hell literally breaks lose, my hands are clean of it all because I can say with confidence that I tried to warn others.

Me:

I’m certainly not upset at you and stated as much when I posted. I’m sorry if what I said here or on my wall upset you, either, because that wasn’t my intent. I think surrounding yourself with people who have opposing views is a great way to expand your mind, and I’m all about the brain power.

That said, I do understand that some people get uncomfortable arguing and it makes them feel attacked and/or like they have to defend themselves. And that still others resort to name calling. You won’t get that from me. (I can’t promise I won’t do that to public figures or collective groups, though, like I did last night on my wall! Hahahahaha!)

I might get amused and sometimes aggravated by the religious right, but I try to at least hear what they have to say if for no other reason than to figure out where they’re coming from. That desire almost caused me to burst a few blood vessels the past decade when Bush was in office, let me tell you.

At any rate, I don’t think Obama trying to inspire kids in a classroom has *anything* to do with religion. It certainly didn’t in your original post. In your original post you talked about conditioning and brainwashing, which clearly indicated you thought he had the power to do that to young children. And in the same paragraph, you asked who he thought he was to try and inspire them to stay in school, and that it wouldn’t make a difference, suggesting he didn’t have the power to change thinking at all. Which is it?

Also, it’s the parents job to teach their kids about personal responsibility (and not the teachers or the President), but it IS the teachers’ job to talk to and teach kids about God? What about Jews? What about Muslims? What about Atheists?

If we’re going to teach about the Christian God, what about everyone else’s God? It would be fine with me, if they included all religions and made it optional, of course, otherwise it’d be… ummm.. church.

But since that’s not really practical, why not just leave that stuff in church where it belongs, and the parents can take them wherever they see fit?

That’s one of the main principles this country was founded on, after all. Freedom of religion DOESN’T just mean being free to praise Jesus, despite what most Christians think. It means being free to worship whoever you want, and also to be entirely free FROM religion if you want.

Just like the Americans are lost sheep comment… I would argue that secular Americans feel exactly the same way about Christians– that they are lost sheep with blind faith who latch on to certain parts of the Bible which serve their beliefs and completely ignore other parts of the Bible which don’t. The worst is ignoring all the parts about feeding, clothing and sheltering the hurting. I wonder if Jesus would think that was socialism… or would he just think that’s the right thing to do? I don’t know. I’m not a Christian and I don’t study the Bible. But from what I can see that’s EXACTLY what he was trying to teach.

Those are the kinds of contradictions that I like to point out when I argue with people. My point in arguing, by the way, isn’t to upset people, hurt them, or piss them off. It’s to get them to think about it in a different way. Even if they come to the same conclusion again, they’ll look at their reasoning a lot more closely. And if someone with an opposing view says something factually relevant that gets me to examine MY opinions more closely, that’s awesome, too. But once it becomes all about the Bible instead of the facts, I will respectfully bow out, too. I could talk about politics all day long, but God’s word? Will leave that to others.

I don’t have a problem with Christians. I have a problem with Christians who don’t act like Christians. But I had an amazing role model on that front– my grandmother was the most devout woman I’ve ever known. But she was also the most kind, empathetic, generous and wonderful person. She didn’t just preach it, she LIVED it. It wasn’t her sole mission in life to convert others to Christianity. Her sole mission in life was to do God’s work, and to perhaps lead others by example. If more Christians were like THAT instead of all doom and gloom, hellfire and brimstone, maybe more people would be inspired to learn.

I could talk about politics all day long, but I need to work.

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She deleted the post and all the comments soon after. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.